ÿþ <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Arguments against Trinity</TITLE> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=UCS-2"> <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="NetObjects Fusion 8 for Windows"> <LINK REL=STYLESHEET TYPE="text/css" HREF="../html/style.css"> <LINK REL=STYLESHEET TYPE="text/css" HREF="../html/site.css"> <STYLE> </STYLE><NOLAYER> <STYLE ID="NOF_STYLE_SHEET"> <!-- DIV#LayoutLYR { position:absolute; top:0; left:0; z-index: 1; visibility:inherit; } DIV#LayoutRegion83LYR { position:absolute; visibility:inherit; top:109; left:0; width:126; height:51; z-index:1 } DIV#LayoutRegion84LYR { position:absolute; visibility:inherit; top:159; left:0; width:126; height:1311; z-index:2 } DIV#Picture190LYR { position:absolute; visibility:inherit; top:972; left:0; width:126; height:46; z-index:1 } DIV#Text209LYR { position:absolute; visibility:inherit; top:1114; left:2; width:122; height:190; z-index:2 } DIV#Picture216LYR { 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large;">Arguments Against Trinity</SPAN></U> </P> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp; In Judaism we are left with two visuals of God and his presence among us. The first is no real visual at all but a proclamation: éÞâ ÙéèÐÜ ÙÔÕÔ ÐÜÔàÕ ÙÔÕÔ Ð×Ó. The second was the symbol of God dwelling among us: the Temple. God proved he would dwell there in the holiest of all and hear our prayers. It was as close as we could come, and for the inner sanctum only the ÛÔß ÒÓÕÜ could enter at a certain time. Thus though the symbol of God dwelling among us was approachable (the temple), we had a clear reminder we could not approach him in actual substance. In truth, neither could the high priest. He could only approach an invisible God who allowed the temple to represent his presence and the inner sanctum his holiness.</P> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp; Jews can understand this, and well they should. It is the proper symbolism God used. He is One. The temple was not God. It truly did not literally house his soul. Houses cannot hold him. He  fills heaven and earth. But we had to have some place to identify with him and we had to have some kind of symbol to show his presence with us. He placed his name there. It is never to be polluted. We know he is everywhere, but he nevertheless sanctified that place. It is holy as a result. </P> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp; Thus we come to something entirely foreign and in the Jewish mind, saturated with this symbolism, senseless. The Trinity. Pray, what is that? Specifically, what is the  Holy Spirit ? Some Messianic websites even use Hebrew  Ruach hakodesh and then proceed to confuse things in English. One site even says that The Holy Spirit is a person of the Godhead and entirely deserving of the status of Deity.&nbsp; What? </P> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp; Let s think about this for a minute. God is Spirit. God is Holy. God is One. Ok, so far so good. Let s take it one-by-one. 1st: God is Spirit. Although we don t know what  spirit really is, yet as we explored in  <A HREF="../html/_by_thy_temple__.html">By thy temple</A> and <A HREF="../html/the_name_of_god.html">Name of God</A> he is everywhere. He has declared  Do not I fill heaven and earth? God most certainly is Holy. Yes, he can put on displays as he did at Horeb. He did that to scare us, as Moses said. We had to get a grip on exactly what God can do. But causing a mountain to burn is not God s natural state. He literally is incomprehensible. He is omnipresent, of a substance (spirit) we cannot comprehend. This is God. He is Holy. He is Spirit. </P> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; I can understand how God can integrate his spirit with a body and speak to us directly. Thus I can understand the concept of a divine Messiah, whether he is called  Son or not. </P> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;  But Father, Son &amp; Holy Ghost poses a problem. If you fully accept that God is spirit, a question is inevitable: What s left over to be the  Father ? Yes, God is Father. But that is a concept, a status. That is not a person. God in his substance, if that word can be used for spirit, <I>is</I> spirit. The Holy Spirit of God, though it is used in scripture, is redundant. It merely meant his pure will and volition being done. God s spirit is not a separate entity. He <I>is</I> his spirit. God <I>is</I> his own Holy Spirit. He is  THE BEING. He fills heaven and earth.</P> <P>&nbsp; <IMG ID="Picture238" HEIGHT=376 WIDTH=300 SRC="../assets/images/Trinity.jpg" VSPACE=0 HSPACE=0 ALIGN="RIGHT" BORDER=0 ALT="Trinity" TITLE="Trinity"> So, you might ask again,  What s the gripe? I ll answer that: If you truly picture a Trinity, who indeed is the Father? After  Son and  Holy Spirit is determined, there s nothing left over to be the Father. If people picture some gray-haired old sage like Zeus, there s a problem. </P> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp; And it s not a small problem. The Christian concept of Trinity not only involves an incarnate  Son but an incarnate Father as well. The only way to get  Father, Son &amp; Holy Ghost to work is to invent a personified God-father like Zeus or something. Then you re way off. </P> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp; Biblically, we are left with no such option. We are left with the awesome expression of God s name and all it means. We are given the hope he will bridge the gap and dwell amongst us. (See <A HREF="../html/messianic_prophecies.html">Messianic Prophecies</A>). More richly than he dwelt in the inner sanctum, he can integrate his own spirit with a body he made for himself. It is a living, breathing temple. Unlike the temple, he can speak, look out to his own creation with his own eyes and he can hear us, embrace, cuddle-- completely express his love for us and receive ours in return in a very real, understandable way. It is really quite insulting to say God cannot and would not do this. After all, mankind is made in his divine image. We mean a lot to him, and this body he made integrated with that spark of his own nature is quite a marvel to boast about. It is really quite profound that THE BEING would really look forward to this moment. His creation the expression of his pure genius is truly a marvel to behold.  Behold, it is very good. </P> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; Personally, I think he found it very satisfying. He could bend a rose branch and smell the petals. He would have had so many wonderful experiences. Like with the temple, he is still everywhere. Yet he integrated his spirit with his own living tabernacle. Mind boggling and incompressible. But it was foreshadowed by the temple. Indeed, Jesus looked out over the temple and said  Behold a greater is here. No son can say that. Within the inner sanctum of that temple the living God s spirit dwelt, silent and without voice. Only God himself could say  A greater is here. Only that very same spirit can say that. And how true the statement is. The greatest expression of God s genius mankind is much higher and better than any stone and gold. Even for a hungry belly, God let David eat of the shewbread. Man has always meant so much more to God, even more than the rituals that set service apart in the temple. God indeed waited for the moment to speak for himself. </P> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; I see in Jesus the same symbolism foreshadowed by the temple and God dwelling there. I see it only more richly fulfilled, for now God will speak for himself. Not through prophets and dark oracles. He would speak for himself. The great moment he told Moses would come. The great moment Moses reminded us of in the desert. <SPAN STYLE="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0,51,102);">Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons sons; Specially the day that thou stoodest before the L<SPAN STYLE="font-size: 10pt;">ORD</SPAN> thy God in Horeb, when the L<SPAN STYLE="font-size: 10pt;">ORD</SPAN> said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children. </SPAN>That very same day, we said we would not hear God, for he was too terrifying. And what did he tell Moses? We spoke rightly. At that moment he promised a greater to come. <SPAN STYLE="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0,51,102);"> The L<SPAN STYLE="font-size: 10pt;">ORD</SPAN> thy God shall raise up to thee a prophet of thy brethren, like me; him shall ye hear: according to all things which thou didst desire of the L<SPAN STYLE="font-size: 10pt;">ORD</SPAN> thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, We will not again hear the voice of the L<SPAN STYLE="font-size: 10pt;">ORD</SPAN> thy God, and we will not anymore see this great fire, and so we shall not die. And the L<SPAN STYLE="font-size: 10pt;">ORD</SPAN> said to me, They have spoken rightly all that they have said to thee. I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren, like thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them as I shall command him. And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak to them, I will take vengeance on him. </SPAN></P> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp; Although  prophet may make people think they can  humanize Jesus, the fact is that Moses song of departure made it plain who would be amongst us. <SPAN STYLE="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0,51,102);">Behold, behold that I am, and there is no god beside me: I kill, and I will make to live; I will smite, and I will heal; and there is none who shall deliver out of my hands. <I>For I will lift up my hand to heaven, and swear by my right hand,</I> and I will say, I live forever.</SPAN></P> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp; I don t see  Father, Son &amp; Holy Ghost . I see the genius of an invisible, living God, who can never be approached as he is. And I have seen him do something truly beautiful. I have seen him walk amongst us. Let the ignorant call out  son and  brother Jesus. I will call out Father, and one day I will see Jesus turn to regard me as his son . . .because from those beautiful eyes of that living temple looks upon me the spirit of my creator. And he shall never remove his spirit from that place. </P> </LAYER></DIV> </FORM> </LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="Picture161LYR"><LAYER ID="Picture161LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=109 LEFT=806 WIDTH=147 HEIGHT=173 Z-INDEX=9><IMG ID="Picture161" HEIGHT=173 WIDTH=147 SRC="../assets/images/autogen/a_MenorahIsraelbottom.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="MenorahIsraelbottom" TITLE="MenorahIsraelbottom"></LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="Picture181LYR"><LAYER ID="Picture181LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=176 LEFT=787 WIDTH=189 HEIGHT=52 Z-INDEX=10><IMG ID="Picture181" HEIGHT=52 WIDTH=189 SRC="../assets/images/autogen/a_tatteredscroll.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="tatteredscroll" TITLE="tatteredscroll"></LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="Text194LYR" CLASS="TextObject"><LAYER ID="Text194LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=185 LEFT=806 WIDTH=159 HEIGHT=20 Z-INDEX=11> <P><SPAN STYLE="font-size: medium; color: rgb(255,153,51);"><A HREF="../html/the_calling_of_elijah_the_prop.html">The Calling of Elijah</A></SPAN></P> </LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="Text152LYR" CLASS="TextObject"><LAYER ID="Text152LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=204 LEFT=792 WIDTH=173 HEIGHT=20 Z-INDEX=12> <P>&nbsp; <SPAN STYLE="font-size: medium;"> &nbsp; ÔçèÙÐÔ éÜ ÐÜÙÔÕ àÙêß</SPAN></P> </LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="Picture231LYR"><LAYER ID="Picture231LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=282 LEFT=963 WIDTH=26 HEIGHT=21 Z-INDEX=13><IMG ID="Picture231" HEIGHT=21 WIDTH=26 SRC="../assets/images/autogen/a_scrollcapweb_18.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="scrollcapweb" TITLE="scrollcapweb"></LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="Picture233LYR"><LAYER ID="Picture233LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=522 LEFT=963 WIDTH=26 HEIGHT=21 Z-INDEX=14><IMG ID="Picture233" HEIGHT=21 WIDTH=26 SRC="../assets/images/autogen/a_scrollcapweb_18.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="scrollcapweb" TITLE="scrollcapweb"></LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="Picture234LYR"><LAYER ID="Picture234LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=281 LEFT=798 WIDTH=27 HEIGHT=23 Z-INDEX=15><IMG ID="Picture234" HEIGHT=23 WIDTH=27 SRC="../assets/images/autogen/a_scrollcapweb_4.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="scrollcapweb" TITLE="scrollcapweb"></LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="Picture204LYR"><LAYER ID="Picture204LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=109 LEFT=310 WIDTH=387 HEIGHT=33 Z-INDEX=16><IMG ID="Picture204" HEIGHT=33 WIDTH=387 SRC="../assets/images/autogen/a_Nabionbannerbottom2_1.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="Nabionbannerbottom2" TITLE="Nabionbannerbottom2"></LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="LayoutRegion86LYR" STYLE="background-image: url('../assets/images/Scrollbannerbottom.bmp');"><LAYER ID="LayoutRegion86LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=2488 LEFT=176 WIDTH=619 HEIGHT=30 Z-INDEX=17 background="../assets/images/Scrollbannerbottom.bmp"> <FORM NAME="LayoutRegion43FORM" ACTION="" METHOD=POST> </FORM> </LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="Picture235LYR"><LAYER ID="Picture235LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=2501 LEFT=795 WIDTH=34 HEIGHT=24 Z-INDEX=18><IMG ID="Picture235" HEIGHT=24 WIDTH=34 SRC="../assets/images/autogen/a_scrollcapweb_6.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="scrollcapweb" TITLE="scrollcapweb"></LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="Picture236LYR"><LAYER ID="Picture236LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=2500 LEFT=140 WIDTH=36 HEIGHT=26 Z-INDEX=19><IMG ID="Picture236" HEIGHT=26 WIDTH=36 SRC="../assets/images/autogen/a_scrollcapweb_14.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="scrollcapweb" TITLE="scrollcapweb"></LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="LayoutRegion87LYR" STYLE="background-image: url('../assets/images/Scrollbannerbody2.bmp');"><LAYER ID="LayoutRegion87LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=1167 LEFT=811 WIDTH=166 HEIGHT=330 Z-INDEX=20 background="../assets/images/Scrollbannerbody2.bmp"> <FORM NAME="LayoutRegion6FORM" ACTION="" METHOD=POST> <DIV ID="Text212LYR" CLASS="TextObject"><LAYER ID="Text212LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=25 LEFT=10 WIDTH=147 HEIGHT=285 Z-INDEX=1> <P>A common example required by Christian theology. God is basically portrayed as Zeus. Jesus is on his right hand giving the blessing of Isis, and the dove represents  The Spirit. Although Protestantism eschewed such Roman paganism, they kept the concept of trinity and therefore have mentally kept such a picture as at left.&nbsp; </P> </LAYER></DIV> </FORM> </LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="LayoutRegion83LYR" STYLE="background-image: url('../assets/images/Scrollbannertop.bmp');"><LAYER ID="LayoutRegion83LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=109 LEFT=0 WIDTH=126 HEIGHT=51 Z-INDEX=21 background="../assets/images/Scrollbannertop.bmp"> <FORM NAME="LayoutRegion5FORM" ACTION="" METHOD=POST> </FORM> </LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="LayoutRegion84LYR" STYLE="background-image: url('../assets/images/Scrollbannerbody2.bmp');"><LAYER ID="LayoutRegion84LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=159 LEFT=0 WIDTH=126 HEIGHT=1311 Z-INDEX=22 background="../assets/images/Scrollbannerbody2.bmp"> <FORM NAME="LayoutRegion6FORM" ACTION="" METHOD=POST> <DIV ID="Picture190LYR"><LAYER ID="Picture190LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=972 LEFT=0 WIDTH=126 HEIGHT=46 Z-INDEX=1 background="../assets/images/Scrollbannerbody2.bmp"><IMG ID="Picture190" HEIGHT=46 WIDTH=126 SRC="../assets/images/TJbutton.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="TJbutton" TITLE="TJbutton" USEMAP="#map0"><MAP NAME="map0"><AREA SHAPE=RECT ALT="" COORDS="2,1,126,44" HREF="../html/true_judaica.html"></MAP></LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="Text209LYR" CLASS="TextObject"><LAYER ID="Text209LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=1114 LEFT=2 WIDTH=122 HEIGHT=190 Z-INDEX=2> <P STYLE="text-align: right;"><SPAN STYLE="color: rgb(255,255,255);"><SPAN STYLE="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0,0,0);">Ðã âÜ äÙ Ðêè ÐÙàØèàØ ÙÔÕÓÙ, ÔÞÙÜÔ éÜ ÙÔÕÔ ÔÕÐ ÜÛÜ Ð×Ó. ÐÜÕÔÙÝ ÞÓÑè ÓèÚ àÑÙÐ ÐÞÙêÙ ÜÔÛÙß Ðê ÔÐàéÙÝ éÜÕ ÜÐèÕâÙÝ ÜÑÕÐ ÕÜäàÕê ÐÖ ÞÔÓèÛÙÝ Ô×ÕØÐÕê éÜÔÝ ÛÐéè ÔÝ ÔÜÛÕ ÑÓèÚ ÜÐ àÛÕàÔ</SPAN><SPAN STYLE="font-size: medium;"></SPAN></SPAN></P> </LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="Picture216LYR"><LAYER ID="Picture216LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=118 LEFT=0 WIDTH=126 HEIGHT=46 Z-INDEX=3 background="../assets/images/Scrollbannerbody2.bmp"><IMG ID="Picture216" HEIGHT=46 WIDTH=126 SRC="../assets/images/ASbutton.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="ASbutton" TITLE="ASbutton" USEMAP="#map1"><MAP NAME="map1"><AREA SHAPE=RECT ALT="" COORDS="0,1,126,46" HREF="../html/anti-semitism.html"></MAP></LAYER></DIV><DIV ID="Picture210LYR"><LAYER ID="Picture210LYR" VISIBILITY=INHERIT TOP=164 LEFT=0 WIDTH=126 HEIGHT=46 Z-INDEX=4 background="../assets/images/Scrollbannerbody2.bmp"><IMG ID="Picture210" HEIGHT=46 WIDTH=126 SRC="../assets/images/MPbutton2.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="MPbutton2" TITLE="MPbutton2" USEMAP="#map2"><MAP NAME="map2"><AREA SHAPE=RECT ALT="" COORDS="2,2,126,46" 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